Building New System

Grymtongue Vazaelle · Member Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 21

Hello all,

I am in the mood for a new computer and I have been perusing the various sites (Anandtech/Tomshardware/Newegg) trying to get a good feel for the stuff out there and the prices. A couple years ago when I bought and built my current computer I felt pretty well informed but I'm not doing so well this time. Confused

In any event I am in an adventurous mood so I was thinking of checking out Serial ATA. In doing so I have been looking for the items to key in with this system. I do have a few questions as I had previously used IDE and getting the low down on SATA hasn't been working.

At times (read-always) I can be quite ignorant of the most commonly understood principles so please excuse me Smile

1) Will I have to purchase a CDRW with SATA compatibility or is there a way to connect to it regularly? (Adapters, Native, etc)

2) If I can not find SATA compatible drives can I use the SATA for the HD while I use the IDE for CDRW and Floppy or does the use of one eliminate the other? I would imagine controller issues may arise.

Here are a few items I have been looking at as I get time. Please let me know what you all think. My main use of the computer is to play games of course Smile

I will only have a limited amount of items on it at any time so HD space is not really important. I will be looking at 1 Gig of RAM and I have not decided to use the onboard sound or not. My Operating System most likely will be XP Pro.

Hard Drive:
Western Digital Raptor 36GB SATA WD360GD 10,000 RPM 8MB Hard Drive OEM
Specifications:
Size: 36.7 Gigabytes
Interface: Serial ATA
Seek time: 5.2ms
RPM:10,000
Data Transfer: 150MB/sec Max
Cache:8MB

Motherboard:
Asus Motherboard for AMD Athlon XP/Duron Processors, Model# A7N8X Deluxe Retail
Socket A AMD Athlon XP/Duron (support AMD XP 3200+ "Barton")
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 Ultra SPP, nForce2 MCP-T
FSB: 400/333/266MHz
IDE: 2 x ATA133
RAM: Dual Channel DDR 400 3x 184-pin DIMM Sockets (PC3200/PC2700/PC2100 non-ECC DDR)
Slots: 1x AGP (Pro/8X), 5x PCI
Ports: 6x USB2.0
Onboard Silicon Image Sil 3112A Controller w/ 2 ports
NVIDIA SoundStorm Audio Processor Unit with Dolby
MCP integrated 3Com MAC + Broadcom AC101L PHY LAN
Firewire 1394: 2 Ports MCP-T integrated IEEE 1394a + Realtek PHY 8801B

Power Supply:
Thermaltake W0011+PFC Silent Purepower 480W with Silver housing - Xaser Edition ATX 2-Fan Power Supply. Designed for AMD K7 and Intel ATX +12V 1.1 and ATX 2.03 version (Fully Support Pentium 4). (with Serial ATA connector.) Peak Output : 550W. 2 adjustable manual fan speed controls in the front and rear side of the case.

Video Card:
No preference other than the best one out there Smile

Would like to spend up to and maybe even a bit above 300 bones on this. I know in two weeks it will be obsolete but what the hell. ATI or NVidea I do not care.

RAM:
1 Gig
I do not know what speed or type is seen as best for the MB atm.

Processor:
AMD ATHLON XP 2600 /333 FSB PROCESSOR CPU- Retail
Specifications:
CPU: 2.08 GHz
Type: XP 2600 Thoroughbred
Cache: 256K
BUS: 333MHz
Socket A
Retail Box (Includes Heat Sink and Fan)

Fan:
No idea on this. Embarassed

Case:
I currently have a Lian-Li Aluminum case which I like very much so I will continue to use it for the new computer and will transfer the current setup to a new box.

Keyboard/Mouse:
Probably basic stuff for this. Any comments on Gamepads? As a bard I may take a look at the configurable pads they have available.

Monitor:
Will probably buy locally. Any input on LCD use in games nowadays? Is refresh a problem?

So please take a look at the possibilities out there for a SATA setup and let me know the items I am missing. At the moment money isn't really a problem, but I would like to keep the total cost to under 2,000 (Which should be easy I think).

Wrahn · Member Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 503

This marks the first and last time I go to this forum. Grym, do you speak english and if so, what language were you speaking?

Murdakin · Member Joined: 30 Jun 2003 Posts: 324

Grym, I have the same mobo, and I use PC3200 ram, 2 x 512 meg. If you go into the bios on the board you can turn a performance option on that times it with the chipset.

I've been thinkin about LCD monitor myself soon... Some of the newer ones look really nice.. From what I understand you want on with about the same "native" resolution that you'll be running MOST of your apps in. Other than that I'm not sure. Embarassed

Video, well if you like NVidia , 5900, if you like ATI, I think it's the 9800?

Get 2 of the raptor drives btw for the raid setup.

Elnrik Talshiar · Member Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 820 Location: Denver, CO

Personally, I like the Intel P4 chips better. HyperThreading + 800mhz FSB + 400mhz ram is kicking AMD's ass right now. If you went with a 2.8ghz processor, IMO you'd see better performance. The 2.8ghz procs has come down in price nicely with the release of the 3.2ghz procs. (Of course, if you want seriously kick ass processor, wait until Intel releases their new processors w/ the new .09 micron fabrication process. I've heard these will be out this fall.)

Almost all of the mobos with SATA have native RAID support (that I'm aware of), and I'd highly suggest going w/ 2 of those Raptors in a RAID 0 config. Let's face it, 36GB of space isn't all that much nowadays. 72GB will get you by tho. And in RAID 0 w/ 10,000RPM drives, you've got some seriously fast hard drive read/write times. (BTW, I like ABit's mobos, in this case w/ Intel's 875P chipset.) To my knowledge, these motherboards are going to have a normal IDE for optical drives as well, so your current CDRom drives should work.

Good power supply you've chosen.

ATI has had better video cards the last year or so, IMO. I'd go with the 9800 Pro 128mb variety they have out. It's close to top of the line, and gives better quality graphics and is faster than the comparable Nvidia card (5800 I believe). If you are going to sink the $500 bucks into a 256MB vid card, the Nvidia 5900 has benchmarked out faster than the ATI with comparable video quality.

Ram: Matching the Ram's frequency to the mobo and processor is key, so be looking for 333mhz or faster memmory. (400mhz in the P4.) If you go with the P4 w/ Hyper Threading, you'll get 4 slots, of which you'll need to split your mem sticks up between the 2 different banks. (2 x 512 mb sticks in the 1st and 3rd slots to take advantage of HyperThreading.) Kingston has some great memory out, which you can read about here. Corsair has very good stuff too, but it's expensive.

Thermaltake makes great case fans. Check those out.

I like optical mice, but don't know squat about game pads.

LCD VS CRT... for over all image quality and price, I'd go with a flat screen CRT monitor before I went w/ a LCD. LCD's fit in so many different places a bulky CRT can't tho.

I think that's all of the questions / points you listed.
_________________

(AKA - Brent)

Grymtongue Vazaelle · Member Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 21

Thanks for the comments

As far as Intel is concerned I guess I would be flying even more blind (if thats possible) as to what mobo and processor etc to use.

I know if I wait a few more weeks/months the prices will fall on most of the items but honestly I can't remember when this wasn't the case. So I either do it now or I can get in to an endless cycle of waiting for the latest prices to drop on the latest equipment...I played that game once.

Once again thanks to those who have commented and keep the comments coming

Jaffod · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:54 pm Post subject:

I like chips
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Is it paranoia when they really ARE out to get you?

Carianna · Member Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 254

And Dip... Can't forget the dip Jaffod
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Bashdur K · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:08 pm Post subject:

Well if we're having chips and dip, I'll bring the beer.
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Shiloch Veneficus · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:43 pm Post subject:

Personally, I'm NVIDIA > ATI.

Microsoft had a falling out with ATI, and with that came several others, including Sony.

The next generation of hardware-demanding games are probably going to be written exlcusively to take advantage of the NVIDIA chipset. Not so important with EQ1, but moreso with EQ2, SWG, and others.

I haven't actually read a lot of benchmarks or testing docs on the new video cards, but man... if you're building a system like that, why the hell would you want to put a fucking AMD processor in it? /boggle

If you are spending the money, buy Intel. Evil or Very Mad

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Sage Shiloch Venzolmes - Arch Convoker - Walkers
QUALITY, not quantity.

Elnrik Talshiar · Member Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 820 Location: Denver, CO

My thoughts exactly Shi. It's just good to stay away from AMD for gaming PCs IMO as well.

If I may, let me recommend a few parts to take a look at.

Mobo: Abit IC7-G Motherboard. About $150

Processor: Intel 2.8ghz, 800mhz FSB, 400mhz DDR Ram capable, with HyperThreading. $267.00*

Memory: KINGSTON HyperX 512MB Kit (2x 256MB) DDR400 (PC3200) DDR RAM modules. $127.00*

Video Card: Click here The GeForce 5900. Best you can get right now, period... but it will run you about $500. I've been keeping up with how ATI and Nvidia have been comparing for about the last year or so. Looking at the benchmarks comparisons of cards between manufacturers, ATI has consistantly had better performing cards up until Nvidia came out with the 256mb GeForce 5900.

My suggestion for Vid Card would be the ATI 9800 Pro. If you need video capture and editing abilities, go with the ATI All-In-Wonder 9800 Pro. These cards are fully DirectX 9 compatable and support programable shaders (which Quake3, and other next gen games will use) so you'll be able to play EQ2 just fine. Not only that, but you're really not going to be using the full memory capacity of a 256MB vid card unless you're running resolutions over 1600 x 1024 @ 84hz refresh on almost any application. Oh yeah, cost: about $364.00*
(Either way you look at it, the vid card is going to be, or should be IMO, one of the more expensive parts of your new PC.)

Sound card: Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer. Cost : $72.00

Totaling up the costs above: $980 bucks.
(* = Current price at newegg.com)

Add to this your Raptor 10k/RPM drives at $150 each (I'm guessing) and we're at $1280.00. Add the rest of the stuff later (DVD+RW's, an extra 512MB of RAM, etc.) as the cash flow comes in. Oh, and if you need it, add $199 for a full install version of Windows XP Home.

Now, for the money, that's a darn good system. BUT... (there's always a but) ...always be a smart consumer. Shop around for the best price, compare similar PC's from Voodoo and Alienware. You may find something about this cool for a little less. And if you're not concerned about overclocking your PC (which most vendors don't allow you access to in the BIOS), then that might be the way to go.

My 2 cp. Hope it helps.
_________________

(AKA - Brent)

Murdakin · Member Joined: 30 Jun 2003 Posts: 324

lil tidbit you didn't hear from me, but last rumor is X-box <microsoft> is going to use ATI in the X-box 2

Jaffod · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:33 am Post subject:

As I said I liked chips - I will have to agree with the Intel>AMD. My old PC used to have AMD and I now use it to heat my house in the winter. Damn thing ran hotter than hell - I used to have an AC unit blow cold air directly into the case just so I could play EQ (junkie huh).

Depending upon which games you play, I would also go with 1gig RAM before dishing out a ton of cash on a soundcard - but I play with sound off most of the time anyway
_________________
Is it paranoia when they really ARE out to get you?

Shiloch Veneficus · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:24 pm Post subject:

Murdakin · Member Joined: 30 Jun 2003 Posts: 324

Like I said just a rumor Razz

I make video chips for both ATI and NVidia so there's alot of rumors where I work. Go go pure play foundries.

Anyway dunno what AMD you used Eln, but I find my AMD 2500+ Barton to be more than reliable. Only AMD's I found not to be good for gaming are Duron's, and any of the old K6 <1,2,3> chips cuz they're just too damn old. My chip runs around 40 C with the stock heatsink. My wifes dropped to 35 C from 45 C with an aftermarket heatsink <heatpipe>. But hers is an 1800+. I have friends that run Intel chips and honestly I have not seen much of a difference. Maybe when games like Halflife 2 come out it'll take more advantage of the Intel chipset than current games.

Elnrik Talshiar · Member Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 820 Location: Denver, CO

Not saying there's anything wrong with AMD at all. I do think however that comparing thier best chips, Intel > AMD.

I think we are to the point on processor speed where it will depend less and less on a processors GHZ and more on it's ability to talk faster with memory and peripherials. Which is why 800mhz FSB and 400mhz mem speeds make Intel king. And the fact that it has better multi-tasking capabilities w/ HyperThreading helps a bit too.

I think Intel did shoot themselves in the foot when they stopped supporting the RD Rambus ram. For example, Sorg's new PC is running that (and not all that much of it by current standards) and she zones faster than I do with 1gig of 400mhz DDR ram and faster hard drives.

Besides, the AMD vs Intel debate is similar to asking "Who is the better gutiarist? Steve Vai or Eric Clapton?" I bet Vai could kick Clapton's ass in the high speed heavy rock style gutar playing, but does he win in the style and finesse section? Which of these types is better? It's largely a matter of opinion.
_________________

(AKA - Brent)