/guildremove Dantenx

[fasterfind]

Today, I visited my current guild's forums and found that it's now a raiding guild which is enforcing the typical requirements and also kicking members that don't show for the raids.

I kinda equate that to corporate greed. It seems that guilds go that direction when the people at the top are the kind that you wouldn't want for a boss. The emphasis is nolonger on just being friendly, having advancement, and enjoying the game as comrades on a universal crusade - the crusade becomes the dream of only the leaders, and the leaders destroy the old dream that was based on something far more grand.

Kinda like what happens to a company with the nice guy, eg., usually the founder, leaves, and greedy outsiders take over. I'm sure most of us have worked for each type of company.

The kind of guild that is led by someone that isn't too competitive, egotistical, or success driven, is the kind of guild that doesn't have an unnecessary, unrealistic, or self centered focus on having the best or being the best. The kind of guild that has the kind of leadership that makes for good friends IRL is the kind of guild I know I belong to.

Anyway, I disbanded myself immediately (noticed that the roster is cut in half as well from a week ago.) heh, guess I'm not the only one with higher ideals of what a guild should be.

Since I'm nolonger wearing a guildflag, other guilds will probably start doing the recruitment thing again. Seems to be a perpetual world of searching for people that can just relax and realize it's a game and that the focus should be on players and playing. The frustrating part is that people will group with me and say, "Hey, join this, it's relaxed... no Nazis here." - but then I join or start to join, and within a week... Nazis. Maybe they're everwhere.

I'm beginning to adopt that attitude that a guild really is just a glorified chat channel. People try to adopt certain ideals, which are sometimes unreasonable, and then enforce them, which can get unreasonable too. They make unnecessarily grand websites, and the leaders get together and say, "I've got a good idea." And some of the ideas are good, but some only sound good - and they get adopted. And then more "good" ideas get adopted until it becomes a beaurorocracy - and we all know that beaurocrocies are crap to work with and crap to work for.

Guilds and companies all seem to meet the same demise after too much management and good and bad ideas are passed...
People despise working there. Work isn't rewarding, isn't fun. There's always someone breathing down your back. There's always someone telling you that you aren't good enough. And it's all negative energy.

I feel old, like the guy that remembers when a job was a job, and people worked together in a happy environment, instead of against each other. And I remember the days when a guild was just a guild.

Layer upon layer of management, micromanagement, greed, ego, and more layers of laws and "good" ideas just destroys every company, and every guild.

The most successful companies are corporations where people are free from the tinkering of management. The most successful companies are companies that don't have "managers". Everybody knows their job and they are successful because they get along and help each other.

It seems that the same way that no news is good news, no management is good management.

I have a friends list with a few walkers on it. Whenever I throw up my LFG flag, I send a hello and ask if an enchater could be used by anyone. But after a few weeks of getting nowhere, I've realized I'm dealing with another beaurocracy, which isn't what I want. - the whole deal with needing a sponsor and a trial period. People will say they enjoy grouping with me and I'm a good player, but there's fear associated with sponsoring, such as they could be disbanded if a manager didn't like me and they are afraid of that. Then there's fear with allowing me to communicate with walkers by having access to a chat channel. Or maybe it's not fear, maybe there's beaurocratic process holding them back from introducing a good player to the guild. Either way, I'm not sure this is going to work here. I just want to join a guild that is a guild, the way guilds are supposed to be and I'll join the way people are supposed to join.

I might check back in the months ahead to see if things have changed.
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Dantenx Guildseeker
(my actual surname)

RL Computer Tech
The geek shall inherit the earth.

[Sorgaine]

Our process of needing a sponsor and supporters is to weed out folks that wouldn't fit right into the Walkers. Walkers is a positive, family guild that likes to raid also.

To be frank, I don't like the tone of your post and while I know that you are quite angry with our system and the system of other guilds... it is PRECISELY why we have a system like this. Now YOU know that you aren't a good fit for the Walkers and now *I* know that I certainly wouldn't want to be guilded with somebody with such a negative attitude.

Good day to you, and I do hope you find the right fit for you, Sir.
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[fasterfind]

The concept of weeding people 'out' is lost when people can't even get 'in'. I think this feels more like a secret society than a family. Families are open and they don't hide anything.

It takes over a month to get on an applicant channel where I can even talk to someone? - That shows a problem that nobody can deny. It's simply not good and there's no logical reason behind that.

The system could potentially work, but it's definately not perfect in it's present state.

A new guy can hop on the boards and be more helpful, making a bigger contribution than some existing members - and nothing happens? Same thing, there's a problem.

I fell through a hole.

If someone were to misbehave on an app channel, just kick them. It's not like having access is going to allow them to damage anything. Infact, it would be good for them and the guild. They would meet other apps, meet guildies, make friendships, and feel included.

When they feel included, make friends, and feel recognizes, they'll stick around.

I think there's some confusion here. People on the inside say this is family, but I haven't seen any real family yet. Since I first joined the boards, perhaps 2 new people said hello. People are expecting me to somehow prove myself, but are denying me the chance to do so.

Let me ask one question...

Decent guy presents himself, shows himself as an assett, wants to prove himself, is denied the chance to do so, spends a month in limbo...

What are you going to do about that?
What are you going to do about the others just like him/her ?
How do you feel about turning people away with an attitude of secrecy and closed doors when you know you're supposed to be better than that?
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Dantenx Guildseeker
(my actual surname)

RL Computer Tech
The geek shall inherit the earth.

[Talos Thornweaver]

Nothing is perfect....nothing.

With that said, our applicant process works just fine. I just think you are upset right now and you are seeing what you want to see and not stepping back and looking at what you are saying about this guild. Every Walker has had to go through the exact same process that you were going through. And the ones that made it through that process can now see that our applicant process works just fine and helps to weed out the people who would not "fit" in our family.

I know it is a very long and very hard process. But if it didn't work, then it would be changed.

I'm very sorry that you have had a bad experience.....but I am very thankful to see that the process is still working. I truly hope you find your place in EQ where ever that may be.

There is a place for everyone and I wish you the best of luck at finding it.
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Talos Thornweaver
<< Storm Warden of Tunare >>

[brelenie1]

I'm sorry you feel that was Dantenx.

But our membership process is now and always has been tough. We are more of a family than any guild I know because it's hard to get in, and we know our newer members well.

I personally went 2 months without a sponsor, and more than 3 months until I got my tag.

It was honestly the best investment of my EQ career.

This is a democracy, therefore it can be slow. Patience is one of the most important aspects of a Walker. Without it you wouldn't be happy here.

I wish you well in all you do in game and out.
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[Herbert Dypp]

/nod Brel

It took me about 3 months also to receive my tag. It was, hands down, the best day of my EQ life and I remember clearly when it happened, where it happened and who gave me the tag (/wave Lorie!)

Dantenx, becoming a Walker has never been a quick process and if you aren't prepared to wait awhile to reap the benefits of our guild, then perhaps Walkers is not the guild you are seaching for.
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Herbert Dypp - EQ Storm Warden(Retired)
"I think I need a deeper algorithm"

[BonlainyT]

Walkers has flourished for well over 3 years with the current system in place, and personally I feel we have the best people on Vazaelle, because we make sure they meet the standards of Walkers. This is a prestigious guild, I bluntly say that. Many people have been Walkers for a long time, left to go to a raid first guild, and come back because they miss that what is Walkers. I think that speaks loudly about this guild.

Like Brel and Herbert said, some people have waited MANY months to get an invite, but they did so and that proves to us that they want in because they know what Walkers stands for, not because they just want a guild.

And if you feel a guild is just a "glorified" chat channel then I say this guild is definately not for you. Yes we chat and enjoy it, but we also get plenty accomplished, much more than any other non-raid oriented guild has done IMHO. I won't go into why our app process works for us, that has been said, but it obviously performs the function is was designed to do.

Good luck to you in EQ, I hope you find whatever you seek and enjoy the experience.
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Xecutioner Smith(retired) Dread Lord of Walkers
Bonlainy Trueheart(retired) Lord Protector of Walkers

[Wrahn]

Fasterfind,

I think you are missing an important point.

We are NOT recruiting. We are not actively looking for new members.

You have come to us and asked us to get in. If we were actively looking for new member we would have processes established to make it smooth, but we aren't.

What we are looking for is friends who we like to group and chat with. We don't know you from Adam, establishing that you are a friend can, as you are now undoubtably aware, take time.

We are sorry about this, I am sure you are a great guy and all, but without someone to stand up and say "Hey this is a guy I will stake my reputation on", you aren't going to get in.

This leaves a lot of people out in the cold. Again, we are sorry about that, but ultimately this is the process we have all agreed on. It is difficult to get into the Walkers, but the people who make it in are generally top notch. (Well except Lhats, I am not sure how he got in.)

I think the best bet in getting into the Walkers is make friends with them, talk to them about getting in and then posting an app, otherwise you are going to be sitting in limbo for a long time.

[Deliria]

When I decided I wanted to join Walkers, I already had someone in the guild I knew would sponsor me, and I think two other friends in the guild. I chose it because of my sponsor, and because of all the good things he said about it being just the kind of guild I was looking for.

I got through the application process pretty quickly, less than a month I think. I avidly chased after Walkers to group with and got in on some fun raids and had a great time.

But honestly, in my personal experience, I look back and wish I had taken longer to get in. When I got my tag, I was so happy, but I felt a little overwhelmed. So many of the members I didn't know, I had never seen. Since I got through so quickly, I know that it would have probably been a much easier transition for me if it had taken longer, I would have felt like a better fit because I would have taken that extra time to know more of the Walkers than it takes to get in.

While I was trying to get in, looking so much forward to having a home and a new family and so excited, I admit I was all impatience. I was frustrated with how long it took me to meet even the members I did, and I was wishing it went faster. But now I can look back and see clearly that this process is the best way. And if I could do it again, I would take even longer than I did.

So, in summary, the application process does take patience, but the more you have, the happier you'll be here.
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~Deliria Delight 62 Cleric
~Keikai Kawaii 57 Rogue

[fasterfind]

I'm surprised to hear that the system has been in place for such a long time. I made the false assumption that it was something probably new and that others didn't have to deal with it or didn't know what it was like.

I also didn't know that the Walkers weren't recruiting. In that case, I can understand why there's no need or want to have an app channel that is open.

Makes good sense now. Can't argue against that logic or reason.

I'm also surprised to see that the resulting posts were positive on this thread. That speaks volumes about character. A 'typical' guild wouldn't have that kind of response on a board - it would be an emotional backlash. -Gotta give you all props for that.
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Dantenx Guildseeker
(my actual surname)

RL Computer Tech
The geek shall inherit the earth.

[Garlok]

I got into Walkers for the free cheese.

To hell with the nice people!!!


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http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1010498

[BonlainyT]

HEY! That's nacho cheese Garlok.
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Xecutioner Smith(retired) Dread Lord of Walkers
Bonlainy Trueheart(retired) Lord Protector of Walkers

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

You two are making me hungry.
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[Kanwer]

mmmmmmmmmmm............nachos! YUM!!
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"I might be a little bit loco, but it keeps me from losing my mind."

Kanwer Howlingwolf-Storm Warden-Retired

Sensei Boytoi-Retired

Mystyx Dreamz-51st Season Shadow Knight-Retired

[Crymea]

A cannoli! That's what I want! A cannoli!

Mmmm.... a cannoli...
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Crymea says, "No tail, no sale."
Tyranimus says, "Oh, shut up you lousy monk."