NICE upgrades for Monks/Warriors next patch...

Aelorean · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:47 pm Post subject:

For the information on Warriors ....click here:

http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=5254

(*sigh* Castersrealm has disabled copy/paste ..*rolls eyes*)

Aelorean · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:48 pm Post subject:

Oh...and let's not forget Rogues Smile

http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=5256

Ladnia · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:23 am Post subject:

Ahhmaye and I were talking just last night about how unstoppable a monk would be with lull. Laughing

I think we're psychic.

Not to be a poop or anything, but I think that might be a bit overpowering for the monks. The way I see it, the warriors are hosed AGAIN. Hell I don't even play a warrior and I'm sure I'd be ticked off with these changes. Monks can now single pull anything in the game (well not ANYTHING, but close enough), Rogues get a whole bunch of new toys there, and the warriors.... they get some aggro increasers BIG FRIGGIN WHOOP.

Now, don't get me wrong, taunt has been painfully broken for too long, and it's a good solution to the taunt problem, but the warriors have been floundering for a long time and all they get is something they should've had in the first place? Throw the warriors a bone, they've been good ladies and gentlemen about it, give them something to make them good at the meatshield gig! Let's see quadruple attack, improved shielding abilities, AC that actually means something, better damage mitigation. Those things would make a warrior into what they should be, and that's the main tank for a group or raid.

Elyhim · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:43 am Post subject:

wooT! i think this is exactly whats needed

Aelorean · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:56 am Post subject:

uhmmm...the warriors are getting an upgrade just as powerful as the monks from what I can tell.

No, the monks deserve this, they need to be reestablished as the game's main puller. Nothing irritates me more than sitting in a group while the cleric (and our clerics don't do this, by the way, I'm talking about pickup groups) sit and pacify every friggin thing in the next room alllll tthhhheee tiiiimmmmeee.

I'm not certain how the rogues need more tweaking, unless it's just to make them more fun. They're pretty powerful as is, but I can imagine it might get a little boring after you've maxed out most things.....or maybe not (I've never played a rogue.heh)

Ladnia · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:16 am Post subject:

Rocsalt · Member Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 200

Taunt does what it should...

It immediatly gives the taunter the MOST aggro over everyone else...
It has a reuse timer just like anything else... The Shaman sits back and laughs because he has 5 dot's stacked up and every 6 seconds is teasing the Warrior with aggro :p If Taunt fails the shaman keeps aggro... The aggro over time thing will help in this and many other situations... On that regard, I have been in a lot of pickup groups lately with a lot of different warriors. I test their aggro abilities just because i'm a prick that way Twisted Evil

... Many warriors don't have much problem keeping aggro in most situations already... Most have adapted the way they need without aggro over time. Aggro over time will indeed make it easier, they can be taunting one and do aggro over time on another to keep the second on them while debuffers debuff it and chanters mezz it and all that any other stuff.

That would change the roles of some people who like to do CC when no chanters around, peeler wants to peel something off to root it, but Warrior has AoT'd it so this time the Warrior dies from not enough heals from the Shaman gimp heals. It will certainly be fun IMO to play with these new abilities for Warrior. I'm no warrior and have none, but it looks fun indeed.

As an aside, I believe that the samples shown here are only part of the new changes. We don't have to wait long to see the brunt of it and have fun playing with each of them.

I as a monk think the lull line of abilities will be fun to play with. Currently monk pullers have Range weapon and FD and hopefully have enough skill / luck to get separations the way they need... When you just want to XP and you are 3 person group you have more choices on where to go now. you can try that hard to pull camp and let another group have the not so hard one. It's not like these abilities will be used all the time, I for one would rather keep my skill honed for when we pull lvl 66+ rooms in raids. Lull as last resort overall, situational.

Each class of pure melee will gain new abilities in the form of :spell look-a-like and each will also gain the new separation of timer on discs. Rogues already have a disc that makes all swings land, so i'm not sure why they are making another :p

I do have to say that the new discs for rogues looks fun, I can't wait to see them in action.

EDIT i looked up Phantom Call on Lucy...
Recast Time: 30
Classes: MNK/64
Duration: 3 ticks

It lasts 3 ticks on Test. It also has recast of 30 seconds. I don't see that as anything overpowered, it's hardley enough time to make much difference. It will help separate 2, but more would take regular skill or the help of another person to lull.
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Elyhim · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject:

^^ what he said.

the lull will be useful in group situations making it better for monks to pull 2 instead of 5, having the split be quicker is going to a great help.

Annir Vazaelle · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:18 pm Post subject:

I was going to point out the recast time and the duration but Roc has already done that. This ability is not the 'chain pulling singles' item that makes a Monk the Alpha Puller again (at least, I don't think it is).

In the post the original quote comes from on Monkly Business there are literally pages and pages of discussion about this. The original post was made by an actual EQ Developer who came to MB to chat about this change.

I honestly think the key thing about pulling is speed. As Zzane, I can pull just about anything if I have the time. Other people can often pull the same things faster, and faster means more mobs and therefore more xp.

This Monk Lull only allows one target at a time to be affected, so it is useful for breaking a chain of mobs and only getting one end of it instead of all of them from assist aggro. That is nice but other lull classes can do the same job better and faster as it is now, so I really don't see this making Monk pulls equal in terms of speed. Maybe equal is not what SOE has in mind, I dunno. At the moment I see this as a situational tool at best, but we'll have to wait and see what it looks like when it (and even if) goes live.
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Zzane Oreolord - Have Tail, Will Travel

Ladnia · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:54 pm Post subject:

Now I understand! Thank you for the explaination, I did not realize how taunt was working now, I only knew that all I had to do was heal once to tear a mob off a warrior (and it didn't even need to be a big heal), and that warriors were peeved and saying taunt is broken. When a warrior tells me taunt is broken, I simply believe it due to the fact that I have to be much more careful about how I do my thing with a warrior than with a SK or Paladin.

This all makes much more sense now, and I'm feeling much better about it. Very Happy

Bikamar · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:37 am Post subject:

Jullious · Member Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 743

As an enchanter, you would expect me to get a little green with envy for monks to get lull but actually I'm very happy to see this.

This is not going to affect raids much. The cap is to low to affect raid level mobs. It may help on the plow. Slight chance it might help split guards, but I'll believe that when I see it. And even if it does, so what. This gives no added ability to single pull as much as it just saves time from doing it the FD - tag way. And who is going to complain about saving time on a raid?

But for an exp group, it's all different. Like has already been said, the key is time. Faster pulls = more exp. Chain pulling is king. I don't like sitting and waiting for the monk to FD split.

I'll pull in LDoN, because I have too. I'll load Pacify and go lull in Tactics or elsewhere when the puller asks me too. But it will be so much nicer when the puller can do it himself.

I want people to be able to pick either a ranger OR a monk for BoT camps.

I don't want people to be limited to a bard, cleric or enchanter for LDoN pulling.

I want to get a puller who can lull in an indoor camp and let me do more DPS.

Rocsalt · Member Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 200

Murdakin · Member Joined: 30 Jun 2003 Posts: 324

You're right Roc, in that respect taunt works, WHEN it doesn't fail. But compared to how the rest of the classes in the game agro, it is far less of a tool than what they have. Pallys stun, even if resisted they get more agro, SK's snare, even if resisted they get more agro, warriors taunt, if it's resisted? he waits his 12 seconds and tries again while hoping to GOD he might get a proc off to help with agro while the slower/healer/mezzer/DPS class or whatever get chewed on. If thats how it's supposed to be just move warriors at the bottom of the DPS melee grid and only pull em out when you need defensive. Wait, we do that now anyway, oops.

Murd