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Grymtongue Vazaelle
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Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:17 pm    Post subject: Possible

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Hey all,

Thinking this through there may be a way to save 9 people for sure with a 50-50 chance for the 10th person. From what is said the people can talk to one another before they get lined up to talk about a strategy. Talking to each other before they get put in line they can agree that the first person (the one who can see all the other hats) will use the word "Black" to confer that he/she sees an odd number of black hats. Conversely he/she would say "White" if they saw an even amount of black hats.

This way the next person to call can look and see how man hats of black color they can see and say the correct color of their hat.

A little illustration:

B W W W B W B W B ?

The ? is the person who goes first. This person can see all the other nine hats in front of them. So this person would say "White!" (They see an even amount of black hats) The next person in line would then know that ? had seen an even amount of black hats. Since this person can only see 3 black hats (they are wearing the fourth) they can assume that they are wearing a black hat and respond accordingly.

The person after that needs to then assume (since the person behind them is still alive) that there is NOW an odd amount of black hats since an even number minus 1 is an odd number. Looking ahead they see 3 black hats. Since 3 is an odd number they can then say that they are wearing a white hat.

So this is a way (If everyone understands) to save 9 people. The first person will only have a 50-50 chance though of saying the correct color.

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papyscott
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:08 am    Post subject:

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<bogus answer removed to protect the stupid /bonk> Smile

ARRGG Rocsalt pointed out the bogusness of my answer before I could remove it. To make rocsalt's post make sense, the answer I gave was to have each person say the color of the hat in front of them. As roc points out this is bogus. You do know your hat color, but you can't both say it and your neighbors hat color.


Papy


Last edited by papyscott on Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:43 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Rocsalt
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Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:59 am    Post subject:

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Quote:
I put this in quote to separate it from my answer...

I disagree Papy...

example of your simple solution...

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
b w w b b b w b w b

1 goes first says White and dies
2 goes and says White and lives
3 goes and says Black and dies
4 goes and says Black and lives
5 goes and says Black and lives
6 goes and says White and dies
7 goes and says Black and dies
8 goes and says White and dies
9 goes and says Black and dies
10 goes and says Black and lives (if he is smart)

OR...

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
b w w b b b w b w b

1 goes and says White and dies
2 goes and says White and lives
3 goes and says White and lives
4 goes and says White and dies
5 goes and says White and dies
6 goes and says White and dies
7 goes and says White and lives
8 goes and says White and dies
9 goes and says White and lives
10 goes and says White and dies

in this case, they all believe the person behind them is saying the color of the hat in front of them...when in reality each person is backstabbing the person in front of them and saying the color they heard the guy behind them say(still believing the guy behind is telling him the color)

for your example, each prisoner would be presented with a choice... Save thyself or save the next person ... so the chance of anyone living is as random as the order and color of hats.



I agree that the most proper way is the answer Grym gave.

I have also an alternative 'not so proper' way and would take much less time to coordinate with the others and you don't have to assume any of the prisoners are smart in logik Twisted Evil

The prisoners gather together before they get the hats put on for their 10 minute think tank...

You suggest that whomever is in the back (the first person to speak about which hat he has on) lightly taps his foot before he answers : 1 tap for Black and no tap for White and each person do the same when it's their turn.

This way, the first person has his 50% chance to live and everyone else will know what color hat they have on without being smart or having to think...
which IMO raises the chances of them living than from Grym's answer which IMO would not be as good because I don't think that many ppl in prison on death sentence would be smart enough to figure out which color they are if they are more than 3 deep in the lineup Laughing
face it, not everyone is as able to solve logical problems as we all are and would probably get confused and fumble :p

yes, i'm a pessimist
/\/\defensive pessimism (di.FEN.siv pes.uh.miz.um) n. A strategy that anticipates
a negative outcome and then takes steps to avoid that outcome)/\/\

An alternative to the tapping would be to have the person behind you yell their answer if the hat in front of them is black and speak normally their answer if the hat in front of them is white.
which i like better, seems less suspicious to me.

EDIT: added 5 words to red answer to make it more clear.
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