Interesting article on class balance.

Gworr

Good read and sums it up pretty well.

http://nmcs.com/spawnweek/displayfile.php?FILE=articles/006melee_balance.txt
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Gworr
Ogre Feral Lord

Grundy · Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:10 pm Post subject:

Very good write up. I would agree that warriors need some help. Being biased of course, I don't know what that would do to knights in everyday experience groups as far as being wanted as tanks. If they can get a warrior and they are better, what would you get a knight for? DPS? Not a Paladin. Extra healing? There are other classes that can heal better and have other more useful abilities in a group.

It's a sticky situation. One group of classes seems to be just about right, while another class needs some help. However, if that class got the help it needs what would that do for the usefulness of the other classes.

As far as the beginning of his write up...I remember those days. Grundy was started in July of 1999 on another server so he has been around a long time. I can say without a doubt that Paladins have come a long way from their very weak beginnings.

Grundy

Aelorean · Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 7:39 pm Post subject:

Not that I agree with it necessarily, but it seems as though SOE has decided that warriors are to be DPS and secondary raid MAs for some wild reason.

Warriors have gotten the shaft recently, since the PoP expansion especially, and no one seems to know why. I think they should give them something totally new and very COOL to make up for it. Even if it's not aggro....give them some sort of wild berserker skills or something....or, maybe they could have an AA that gives them abilities similar to a boss mob ...like AE (fear maybe) and/or summoning (uncontrollable) aggroed mobs. Or, maybe they could work with an enchanter or a wizard to transform into a DRAGON!!

Ok...crazy, but still

Jaffod · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:32 am Post subject:

As an inate gainer of agro, I would love to see warrior be able to gain/maintian the attention of a mob better. With an underequiped warrior as my MA in a group I genrally torpor myself on inc. so I can deal with the inevitable pounding I will recieve upon debuffing. With a Pally or Sk (esp. Pally) I can debuff the mob completely with no thought of getting wailed on - well assuming a moderately well played Pally/Sk. With a very well played Pally (/wave Bauldor) I can debuff the mob and then go kick it in the 'nads and still not have to worry about agro
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BonlainyT · Member Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 3942

Actually on raids warriors are STILL the MA of choice, at least on my raids, just maybe not so much so in exp groups. On a plow to a boss we may use paladins and SKs but on the bosses I want a warrior there taking the hits, they generally have more HP, higher AC and those nice AA and discs that make damage go away.

I know for a fact Steel and Murd generate nice aggro once they get going, just not that instant aggro a paladin or SK can generally do.
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Bonlainy Trueheart(retired) Lord Protector of Walkers

AtomickLbow · Member Joined: 28 Feb 2002 Posts: 366

I think it was a nic write up. I do think us Warriors are underpowered though I think he takes ti to far. Hell if they just made aggro a little easier to hold I would be happy. One thing is for certain since PoP though. Most any group would rather have a Pally/SK over a Warrior for the Main Tank. Instant aggro is awesome. My personal belief is they should make taunt build aggro for ALL taunt users. warriors should be able to hold aggro, but a stupid person should be able to pull it off when they are dumb. I think any casting class should be able to pull aggro off of a warrior. Do they want to? probably not, but if they are dumb they deserve aggro and maybe even to die. Warrior should just be able to get agro back become we have mashed that hot button 15 times. =)
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TheNerple · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:24 pm Post subject:

Wow, this article was complete garbage, its obviously biased, ignores alot of the content and the last 2 paragraphs makes him look like a jackass
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AtomickLbow · Member Joined: 28 Feb 2002 Posts: 366

So how do you really feel Nerple? Razz

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TheNerple · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:15 pm Post subject:

Well after reading his responses to a thread about this article on the Ranger's Glade, I not only think the article is trash, he sounds like a pompous ass living in the past.
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The Ling Slayer - The Licker
Appotus Dominus - Vazaelle

veng2001 · Member Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Posts: 234

Sorry, but I think that article is crap..... no make that CRAP ! lets talk about who's class got screwed. As a 65 wizzy my vast ability to port and translocate is useless anymore( except for ae port to bind). With PoK having 20 instant gates to various locations, they don't need a wizzy or a druid any more to get to places quickly. All they need is a port to bind (PoK). They don't even have to wait like they do in the nexus. Any time they need to go to one of those places..... poof....there they are.

Ouch !

Now lets talk about damage. Haste items + haste spells has multiplied melee classes damage output by a tremendous amount ! I'm sorry, give me an item that multiplies my damage by 50% then give me a spell that multiplies that damage again by 50% and a then I might feel that things are balancing. Oh but there is Kei or tranquility and ft items ! That has given us a real edge right ? lets see..... um.... no ! give me the ability to have my mana replenished fully and nearly instantly by a spell like the health of a fighter class gets fully replenished by a complete heal...... and I might call it balancing.

Ouch !

oh wait, there is............ Mana preservation...that will change things completely. ummmm.....so lets see.......our spells do more and more damage, take more and more mana, and take longer and longer to cast ? so to be fair..... fighter classes weapons must do more and more damage.... take more and more...what....stamana,... and take longer and longer to wield right ? what ? you mean they don't ? they do more and more damage, drain no additional stamana or anything, and they get faster and faster ! Well it looks to me like mana preservation only slightly lessens this oversight. Make that ever so slilightly lessens this oversight!

Ouch !

Lets not forget about manaburn. You know we wizzies, (we don't have shit for armor or health), but we are the "masters of direct damage" we get the most damaging of spells. and of course the one thing that was suposed to be so uber for us as to define us as the masters of direct damage is practically totally useless. Let us use our mighty manaburn to smite our puny foes ! lets see....... if at full mana...... I can do +8K damage every 2+ hours of real time! of corse that uses up all my mana, and makes me totally useless untill I recover mana........which takes me out of the fight for quite some time, (normally just untill everyone kills the mob). but thats no problem...... I really like shooting my wad and then sitting back to let everyone else do all the work. After all, it's not like we are shadow knights and can do what 7500 damage every hour, without using any mana....meaning .....meaning...... hey ! They just did nearly as much as I do, and they don't use all their mana..... they are not totally useless after they use their harm touch like we are after we use manaburn. They can even do it twice as often as I can manaburn !!!!

OUCH !!

Lets see..... how else can we screw with casters? OH.....Wait......some of them can snare or root and stay away from the mobs ! I know.....lets make all the fairly high and high level mobs automatically summon ! yea! thats it ! We will even allow the purely fighter class mobs to automatically and instantly summon. That way these dam spell casters can't get away...... oh wait.... these mobs will summon the casters pet and pound on it instead of the caster..... so that means with all these new and improved pets and pet heals the casters got us this time........what.......Wait........ What do you mean wizzies have no pets ? Yea they do..... they have that Flaming sword of Xulz.....you know, the one that has 200 hit points. (snicker snicker) .....that will take the first hit that does around a thousand pts. "you will not evade me
veng" ......................................................................................................... Crunch Crunch.........Loading please wait.

"DUH ! .... why do all wizards complain so much? DUH Rolling Eyes

OUCH !!! OUCH !!!

Well ...... excuse me, ( ouch! ) but I need to get going..........my butt is getting sore. It must be from getting screwed up the ass too much by Sony!

Veng......ouch......the awesomely powerfull.....ouch.......awe inspireing ouch ouch ouch, anyone got some preperation H ? super duper OUCH! never mind.

Just make it Veng the Poked Wizzy Crying or Very sad

TheNerple · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: This is CRAP

Jaffod · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:20 pm Post subject:

As a shammy all I have to say is - what is dps?
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Is it paranoia when they really ARE out to get you?

TheNerple · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:19 am Post subject:

Dexlen · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:37 am Post subject: