What if.......

Carianna · Member Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 254

Okay... I know that this is way off subject from EQ.. and I want everyone to understand that this is a "What if... " question. There are no right or wrong answers, so please no flaming....

I have recently watched several times and am now reading Gods and Generals by Jeff Shaara. For those that do not know, this book/Movie is the first of a Trilogy for a "Historical" Novel about the American Civil War. This book, and the movie have been very good and showing both sides of the Blue and Gray.

While I was at lunch today... and doing my reading while eating a Taco Bell Mexican Pizza... I began to wonder what the United States of Amercia would be like if the Confederate States of America had won the war.

What do you think?
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TheNerple · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:02 pm Post subject:

I had a few ideas, then realized I would probably get banned for saying them..
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Jaffod · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:44 pm Post subject:

An interesting question and, as Nerple infered, one that could lead to some charged answers.

I know that there was a book (series of books?) called "Fatherland" that worked on the premise that Germany won WWII, is there nothing written that is based upon your question?

For myself I am not knowledgeable enough about the differences in thought between the two sides (except fot the slavery issue of course) to be able to postulate anything.
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Herbert Dypp · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:48 am Post subject:

slap me if i'm way off mark, my US history is not good. But wouldnt you have been part of the British Empire, probably sweeping up every 5 years at the Commonwealth Games Smile

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Rocsalt · Member Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 200

Wrong War Herby. You're thinking about the war we call Revolutionary War I think, Cari is speaking of US's own Civil War that took place to stop a possible split in the country between the northern part and the primary farming southern states...

My opinion in my VERY Limited memory on this piece of history is that there would have been another war following the one that ended if the Confederate (Southern) "Gray" states had won. The Union (Northern)states "Blue" were pretty determined to not let a split happen in the states. One the one side you had people fighting primarily for the right to continue owning slaves to work their farmlands, the other side didn't agree that was a good reason to try to become a separate entity.

I may be off some... I have slept a LOT since school Razz

... and that's as far as I am going in this topic Smile

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AtomickLbow · Member Joined: 28 Feb 2002 Posts: 366

Being a History major I think this is a fun topic. But I will say.... No way in hell is this the proper place to discuss it. It is to politically charged and has way to great a chance to offend. Will talk to you about it sometime though Cari.
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Jullious · Member Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 743

I've participated in a few what'ifs along this line and the key points to consider are:

During the civil war the automated cotten picking machine was invented eleminating the need to manually pick cotton. (Figure out the next step for yourself. The imporant thing to realize, if you are not familar with labor cost, is that business cost is hugly labor. Anything that can replace the work of five men is $ savings. All businessmen will convert to the new technology if it makes $ sense.)

With that issue resolved, would reconciliation have been possible? Possible, yes. Probable, we will never know. But given Lincon's patience, and wisdom it is possible and the fact that may of the leaders of the confederecy still loved the U.S. of A., then anything is possible. Remember, Lincon refused to start the war. And Robert E. Lee was offered command of the northern armies at the beginning of the war. These people had close relationships with each other. If the south could have kept it's panties from getting in a wad the whole mess could have been resolved.

But that may not exactly be what you asked. So let's ignore that portion, and just look at economics. When you ask, people will tell you that the south was rural with all that this means. The north was industrial with all the good and bad side effects of that. And that neither nation would have had the abundance of captial that together they had and the US would not be the super power that she is today.

Remember that economic capital comes in three forms: cash, land and people. Inject any of the above into an economy and you will get growth. The US had lots of land, and people flowed in daily. Allowing her to grow quicky and to a huge size. So, the real question then is, where would the people go if there were two countries to choose from?

And for that, I suggest that the people coming here were farmers. They would choose to go where the farm land was. But before you jump to your concusion, I want to remind you of something: there were actually three sides in the US civil war. The north, the south and the west. The west stayed with the US and after the war would have been the venue for land based expansion. People would have continue to migrate to the US and it would have continued to grow. Not to where she is now, but she still would have been a world power. And maybe, just maybe, a super power.

Aelorean · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:14 am Post subject:

Yes, be very careful on this topic.

What I have noticed (from growing up in the rural south and now living in the midwest and traveling extensively in the northern U.S.) is that the southerners have a much more vivid memory of the Civil War than the rest of the country (for obvious reasons).

Southerners feel a great deal of pride about the Confederacy, even to this day, and they are still very bitter about having lost. This might seem strange to you if you're not from the south, but it is very VERY much true.

The other thing that most southerns will tell you is that the Civil War had as much to do about slavery as the Iraq war is about weapons of mass destruction: it was simply the match that lit the fire. Heck, do you have an idea how EXPENSIVE a slave was?! I'd say that 90% of the south, even at the time of the civil war, didn't even know anyone that had a slave.

Therefore, you must understand that the confederate flag, to a southerner, has absolutely nothing to do with slavery -- it has everything to do with pride for something that they believed so strongly in as to challenge an institution (the U.S.) that most any strategist would have said was suicide.

No, the south is still bitter about the Civil War (heck it wasn't really THAT long ago!) and would probably do it again if the right leader called them into action. But, personally, I'm glad the north won ....I think the system today is MUCH better than it would have been had the south won (or even had the south won independance).

Carianna · Member Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 254

I'm sorry for bringing up this subject. As it seems that feelings may be hurt in this discussion and several have expressed that this is not the place to discuss this, wil a moderator please remove this thread.

Thank you and sorry about the inconvience.
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IddinLunasglory · Member Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 504 Location: Denver Co

I think Jullious's post puts it very well. most likely the US would have divide into at least 2 if not 3 nations (pending that reconsiliation could not be made), severly weakining the economy of them. Thus with the split would the US have been as atractive to others as it is today? Would the population be much lower? Interesting how things would have been different, this would have greatly affected WWII as a result as well.