I wish it would just die...

[Aelorean]

As a programmer, I have never wanted something to die so much as the Macintosh Operating System. I thought it was finally about to happen, and that so many of these brain washed folks that love the Macintosh could be re-educated when someone nimwit over at Apple decided to make a Unix front end (ie, Xwindows) and call it OS X. Fine...at least it's now a decent operating system, even if it is just linux with a pretty face.

But...why can't it just die? Why do they have to keep making software for it? /cry I JUST WANT EVERYTHING THE SAME SO I CAN DEVELOP *ONE* VERSION AND EVERYONE CAN USE IT!

Screw EQ for Mac....

/rant off

[ekung]

OMG.. MAC EQ'ERs ! i am very sad and very scared at the same time. RUN FOR THE HILLS

[fieni]

BSD is not linux as gnu is not unix

What? you dream of a windoze only world? Wow.... I didn't even though someone can dream of that!

[Aelorean]

I dream of a MACless world ...I don't care about anything else. ...everytime I sit down to "fix" one that someone brings to me with problems it just amazes me out Apple has got people brainwashed into thinking it's 'easier' than windows.

[produs]

I think you have all missed the point here. They get all but LOY for $50.00. That is what is messed up here.

Produs

[Alermik]

Prod, I'm not sure if Sony stopped making them or what since I can't find any on major retailers' sites, but there was "Everquest Gold" available for $50 for the PC that was what you describe, all expansions minus LoY.

The part that I snickered at in the press release was the "top-notch customer service" that was mentioned. Heeyah, right. ">

And on the side tangent, I've heard good things about Mac OSX, but iMacs have forever destroyed any chance of me seeing Apple in a good light.

[warlax007]

AHAH best quote:
"over 25 million Apple Macintosh gamers running OS X will be able to experience the leading massively multiplayer online role-playing game"

Most Macs I know of are in schools. I guess high schools are teaching the youth of today how to be the gamer of tomarrow!

Also, "25 million Apple Macintosh gamers" where did they pull that number out their ass?

Warlax

[Heelarsalvavida]

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Verant is perfectly capable of making a single box that contained both Mac and PC versions of EQ (the Mac players will be on seperate servers), if they knew anything about programming. Which, of course, we already know the answer to that one. ">

Honestly, Macs are such a niche market nowadays, I don't see why it would affect programmers other than those trying to get a teeny tiny bit more money.

[TheNerple]

Heelar, has to be somewhat compelling all of us are still playing! Hell EQ blew away my personal record of how long I was addicted to a computer game by miles. I still miss Snood and Civ2 though ">

And Customer Service is still better than almost every other game, even if it leaves a lot to be desired.

[Robaz]

Greetings Mighty and Noble Aelorean. If I might I wish to post my 2cp regarding my personal feelings regarding the Macintosh OS. As one who works on them almost daily I find that I prefer the stability and ease of the Mac OS's to comparable versions of the Windows OS's.

I started my job as a PC technician who was forced to become a Mac technician due to lack of enough mac techs. I was rather distraught when this happend and a bit upset because I knew ZERO about Macs then. It took me a year or so to get proper OJT so that I learned all the subtle nuances of the Mac OS. There are pluses and minuses to all OS's but I prefer the Mac OS for most things (gaming excluded for obvious reasons).

I certainly do not have near the knowledge of software that you as a programmer do. I can speak, however, to setup and configuration of Windows based OS machines vs. Macintosh based OS machines. I do both on a regular basis. I prefer the ease of the Mac. I find that setup is quicker and easier on a Mac. I also find that novice users seem to take to the Mac fairly well.

I am a novice OSX user as we have very few machines with OSX yet. I am currently studying to take the tests required to certify me as an Apple Certified Desktop Technician (ACDT). For the training courses I am taking I am using a Titanium Powerbook G4 with OSX 10.2.6 and so far I am really liking OSX. I have no training on unix command line, but I am ok with DOS, so I am sure I will pick that up eventually... so far in the training there has been no command line stuff but I just started.

I am kind of curious what you dislike so much about the Macintosh OS. I will list a few of the things that bug me about Apples:

-No right clicky mouse out of the box (you can buy third party mice with it)
-The Imac is not the best hardware Apple ever made.
-Inherent flaws with Video going back to the older 5200/5500 model Apples that still happens with brand new Imacs we have gotten (RGB cable problems that result in screen color hues of green, redish, yellowish, etc... ANNOYING but fixable on our new machines by replacing the cable).
-Expense. Apple has always been pricey and that, imho, is why they hold a meager 3-5% market share. They are always on top with new technology (check out the new G5, it's most uber sir) but the stuff is WAY overpriced for average consumers.

Well, just a simple techs opinion on Macs ">

Be well friend and see you in Norrath.

Robaz
Vazaelle

[Aelorean]

As always, Robaz is the perfect debate partner. Impossible to offend, but never faltering and his logic is impecable. FINALLY someone that can justify their love of the Macintosh without bringing religion into it!

My biggest problems with macintosh are as follows:

They're dumbed down
They've been heralded, and intended, for the novice user since the very beginning. Therefore, when/if you attempt to do something complex, it is more complex than it needs to be. An example would be network setup: setting up network devices on a Macintosh is pure hell unless it's the very basic "ethernet connection to a port" or "modem to the jack" type thing.

No right mouse button
It seems simple, but WHY!? I've never understood this...

Installation/Uninstall process
The installation/Uninstallation process on a Macintosh is the most mystifying thing ever. Again, it all goes back to this notion of making things "easier".

Opening Files
If the file isn't recognized as an executable file by the system, good luck opening a file. For example, I had a file created by an earlier version of Pagemaker that I KNEW would open in the later version that was on this one Macintosh. I had it sitting on the desktop and for the life of me, and everyone else in that office, we could not figure out how to get the computer to open that file or even ATTEMPT to open it (especially with Pagemaker). If a PC doesn't recognize a file, it asks you how to proceed...it doesn't ignore it.

Working between OSes
I never have a problem opening a Macintosh saved version of anything (Finale, MS Office, Pagemaker) ...but, it's always the biggest trial in the world getting it to work the other way.

Printers
Apple Talk needs to die. DIE DIE DIE! It drives me crazy when I have guest artists come to my campus (yes, they all use Macs because the music industry has been TOTALLY brainwashed), we FINALLY get them into the network and they can only use Apple printers!

Price
WTF are Macs so expensive?! I just read about the new G5s coming out at around 2-3k each.

No Command Prompt
This is one thing that OS X remedied from what I understand...you can get to a command prompt with the ability to actually USE it now. So, this could be a moot point...but it was definately an issue in the earlier versions. Some things simply REQUIRE you to be able to type in commands to be efficient.

Crashing
I must be the only one in the world that deals with frequent Mac crashes. Actually, it's not so much a crash as they "freeze". I remember in college working on music things such as Finale ..and not only would it freeze up randomly ..sometimes it would corrupt the floppy and hard drives in doing so.

Customization
Again, perhaps this has changed recently but I've always hated the fact that you were pretty much forced to live with the Mac OS the way that it came to you. Again, this was primarily to make it 'easier' (ie, you CANT screw it up).


Anyway...these were a few of the things that came through my mind as I was typing it. Basically, my biggest issue is that I just hate having to deal with two different "things". I really do want everyone to be using the same kind of computer, no matter what it is, so that we can make it the best possible and develop the best possible software for it without being distracted by another OS. Granted, I'm ok with Unix because it's a different thing altogether and doesn't interfere with developing software or customer service with the general population. Honestly, I don't give a rats ass about who makes the money either ...everyone seems "offended" somehow that MS makes all the money....it really doesn't matter to me. Apple could just start developing great hardware or software and make plenty of money that way too.

But....I grow weary of this unwinable debate Robaz...let's just forget and go to Veeshan's Peak!!! I know you want to go ">

EDIT: ..haha..I think it recognized ******alk as profanity or something..it ***'d it out!

[Alermik]

Aelorean, if you've worked with java before, you should understand why it replaced A P P L E T with asterisks ">

And no, you certainly aren't the only person to crash macs. I remember crashing one at a high school that I was visiting by playing with a simple jigsaw puzzle game. Oops, my bad. The other thing that bugs me about macs is they seem counter-intuitive, although that may simply be years of working on DOS/Windows-based systems speaking. Case in point: when you click on the little box in the upper left(?) of a window, the window closes, but the program doesn't. Problem is, many people don't notice, and then there are like 5 programs running in the background with no windows open, which simply overwhelms the little memory available to, say, iMacs. Once again, I've heard very good things about OSX, although I haven't gotten a chance to work with it, so it may be better on real macs.

As a side note, the hockey puck mouse is the worst mouse design, ever. kkthxla~

[fieni]

Mac rules. period

[Talvarien]

I'm a hybrid! lol

I work on Macs all day. I'm an Art Director at a design firm, and our industry is about 99.9999999999% Mac.

At home I run two PC stations for gaming and internet play.

I gotta say, from the art/design standpoint, that Mac is our industry standard for a good reason. They simply run the design programs cleaner, more stable and less "clunky," for lack of a better word. Also, because of their niche in our industry, they've gone out of there way to make these systems cater to our needs.

Hell, I cut my teeth doing design on PCs, and was a HUGE Mac hater...huge. But the job market forced me to switch, and needless to say, I'm a huge fan now, especially of the OSX.

For business applications, gaming and technical work, I think the PC environment is the only way to go.

I like the strengths of both systems, and hate features of both as well. But like Ael, I pray for the day when there can be one standard, and one OS.

And that my friends, is my 2cents ">

Tal